The search for the right RV.

If you’re not willing to settle for what someone wants to sell you, then finding what you want is not an easy task.  We looked at a lot of new and used RV’s but none had the feel we were looking for, or they were so abused they weren’t worth the effort to restore them.  Neither of us is afraid of restoring something, we’ve saved six houses and one RV, but some things just can’t, or shouldn’t be saved.

When walking into a dealership for a new unit, unless you can be specific about what you’re looking for in an RV the salesman is most likely going to try and sell you the unit that has been on the lot the longest, or the unit with the highest mark up.  We found that it’s best to plan on spending several hours on the lot looking at units.

As a courtesy to the salesperson, let them know ahead of time that you want to see a lot of different units, and that you want to spend a little time inside each one you look at.  We’ve found that by giving the salesperson a heads up of your plan quite often they’ll let you wander around the lot on your own.  This will give you time to thoroughly look units over without someone trying to sell you on the good points of the unit.

If you’re looking at used units it is best to separate. Send the person that knows the least about the workings of that area of the RV to another area of the RV with the salesperson.  This gives the other a chance to do a non-directed, uninhibited look over.  We’ve found this works best because then the salesperson or owner of the unit isn’t directing you away from the bad points.  Not all salespeople do this, but from the experiences we’ve had, we’ve found it to be true more often than not.

As an example, one unit we were interested in looked really good in the online posting, so we decided to take a look at it.  A picture may be worth a thousand words, but the sins that can be hidden by holding the camera at the correct angle can cost you thousands of dollars.  We contacted the dealership where the unit was on consignment.  The salesman didn’t really ask us very many questions in regards to what we were looking for, but he did tell us that we would probably be happier with a 5^th wheel, or pull-behind toy hauler, which is what they sold, they only sold motor homes on consignment.

When we told him we had no interest in pull units his attitude towards us changed.  When we got to the unit he opened the house portion door and walked in, leaving us standing outside.  At first I just thought he was being a little rude, but what he was actually doing was hoping that we would just follow him in without looking.  The threshold was bent from excessive traffic in and out of the unit.  He then stood in the hall and pointed us towards the cab area which was in good shape.

When I pointed out that the cab area was in good shape he was proud to tell us that they had just gone completely through the unit.  We left the cab area and he took us directly to the garage area.  I let my husband go first and I hung back in the living area.  Because we had previously restored an RV I had a pretty good idea of things to look for that were signs of problems.

The sliding windows and their surrounding areas looked clean at first glance, but when I got close and looked in the corners of the tracks I found water damage which was starting to cause the tracks to separate from the wood which is a sure sign that the wood underneath is rotting.  Next I started going through the cabinets.  Before I got to the second cabinet the salesman was back in the living area.

He stood in front of the cabinets that were above the dining area.  I went into the bathroom and when I commented that the flooring didn’t fit tight against the shower base, and that there was quite a bit of caulk along the top of the shower surround the salesman told us that they weren’t quite finished with the repairs yet, but that they should have them finished within a couple of days.  I asked what repairs?

He then proceeded to tell us that they had replaced the subfloor and linoleum from this point to the garage entrance because there had been a roof leak which was now fixed.  When asked why the leak hadn’t been fixed before it got to the point of rotting out the floor the salesman told us “it was actually leaking down the wall between the living area and the garage, so the owners had not known there was a leak until the floor became squishy.

I went towards the garage and the salesman followed.  Todd got the salesman’s attention and I headed back into the living area.  The first place I looked was in the cabinet that the salesman had been standing in front of.  There were water marks running down the wall at the back of the cabinet.  This cabinet was on the exterior wall, not the wall between the house and garage.

I went back to the garage.  The ladder to the roof hatch was down and the hatch was open.  Todd was inspecting the roof.  He came down the ladder and told me I should take a look.  The roof air conditioner unit was at the edge of the roof, just slightly forward of the hatch.

Yes, they had replaced the rotted out flooring, but they had not fixed the cause of the leak.  There were multiple sticks sticking out from under the air conditioning unit.  With just a quick visual it was easy to see that the sticks had damaged the air conditioner and this was the cause of the leak.  They may have fixed the damage, but the cause of it hadn’t been fixed so the damage was sure to appear again.

This damage alone made this unit a no go for us, but it wasn’t the only damage we found on the unit.  The unit had been used by a dirt bike racing team.  We found this out by viewing the sides of the unit while looking for delimitation.  You couldn’t see the outline of the removed decals from looking directly at the side, but by leaning in and looking for ripples in the exterior the outline of the decals were visible.

We also found that they had spliced into the wiring at the trailer hitch and had not even taped up the splices.  There were several other places we found where they had spliced into the wiring, some were taped up, and some were not.

Using a penlight and looking down the sides of the generator enclosure we could see where oil had sprayed on the sidewall.  The salesman didn’t know why the oil was there, but he did know that the generator runs good.  Was what caused the oil to spray on the walls fixed, or not?  He didn’t know, but he did know that if we offered the owners $5,000 less he was sure they would take the offer.

We looked at a lot of units and this was the kind of stuff we were finding with just about all of them.  Some were a complete joke, sure they looked good in the online postings, but in person they were cobbled together and made to look pretty.  If you’re going to buy a used unit, or a new one for that matter don’t be afraid to get up close and personal with every surface of the unit.

Unless you’ve dealt with detailing a unit, the amount of products out there that can cover up, hide, blend in, patch, plug, and fill will blow your mind.  These products do not fix the damage though; they just cover it up and make it look pretty. Because these products are just fillers most wash away, come off, or come out the first time the area is washed.

A unit must be in good mechanical working order.  Nothing sucks more than being stranded on the side of the road, other than being told that it’s going to cost thousands of dollars to repair the engine, or transmission, and oh by the way, it’s going to take several weeks to complete the repairs.  If the salesman or owner will not let you drive the unit, or at the very least ride in the unit while it goes down the road then don’t just walk away from the unit, run.

Some other areas to look at are the threshold going into the unit.  Is there a lot of wear?  Is there any warping?  RV’s are meant to be lived in, so it makes sense that they will be lived in more than they will be driven.

Whether the unit has sliding windows or not check around the bottom and top edges where the windows are sealed into the walls.  It’s really hard to get the gunk out of the corners after it has gotten wet, so if there’s a lot of gunk it’s a sure sign that there’s been moisture.  Press on the area below the window, is it soft or squishy?

Crawl under the unit and look at the exposed wiring.  Is it in tact?  Is it in its originally routed position?  You can tell this by looking at the areas around the zip ties.  If the ties don’t look like they’ve been disturbed then it’s a good sign that the wiring hasn’t been rerouted.  Look up and make sure the areas around the vents aren’t sagging or lumpy looking.  If you see either, there’s previously been a leak, or there may still be a leak.

Another unit we looked at was a lot higher in price, and had a lot more miles on it.  The salesman explained that the price was almost four times higher because it was a diesel.  Yeah, diesels are more expensive because they last longer, but a third of the expected life of a motor is a third of the expected life of a motor whether it’s gas or diesel.  After pointing out several areas of damage the salesman decided to relieve our leeriness by informing us that this unit met the criteria for an extended warranty.

Dealerships make a lot of their income from selling extended warranties.  Make sure that you take the warranty paperwork home and read through it thoroughly.  Most times you will find that the warranty doesn’t cover much.  From the experiences we’ve had, dealing with insurance companies from the stand point of the repair company, they’ve got more stipulations as to why they don’t have to pay for the repair then reasons that they should pay for the repair.

This is a definite buyer beware situation.  I’m not saying that all extended warranties are bad I’m just saying that you really, really need to invest the time to read through what you are purchasing before you invest your money.  Use a highlighter, and/or a pen when reading through the warranty and make sure you ask questions about everything that you either don’t understand, or that just doesn’t make sense.

When the questions are answered, write the answer down on the warranty paperwork and have the salesman sign the answer.  Remember, he does not work for the warranty company, so even though it’s something he said, the warranty company doesn’t have to honor it, but if the salesman signed his name to the statement then the dealership has to honor what their salesman stated was a part of the purchase agreement.  If it comes down to having to pursue a claim this way it can get messy, so be ready for a battle.

All in all, if any part of the unit, the dealership, the salesman, the purchase agreement, or anything at all makes you uncomfortable walk away.  You’ve waited a long time to purchase an RV, a few more hours, days, or weeks of waiting isn’t going to make that much of a difference.

What leads up to deciding to live full time in an RV.

Having worked 8 years at a dealer’s only repossession auction I was lucky enough to see the good, the bad, the beautiful and the ugly of many, many different RV’s, vehicles, motorcycles, and boats.  None of the units that went through the auction ever struck me as something I wanted to own.  Until the day one of the lot guys came in and told me there was this really cool RV with a garage attached that I just had to check out.  Even though I said I had no interest in an RV, he insisted that I just had to see it to believe it.  There were many things that arrived on the lot that unless you actually saw it, you’d never believe it.  What some people do to their vehicles is just plain scary.

The unit was a Class C Four Winds Fun Mover.  He was right; I had never seen anything like it before.  I had seen toy hauler pull-behind travel trailers, and 5^th wheel toy haulers, but neither type ignited enough interest to make me want to own one.  We own trucks big enough to comfortably pull either type, but having traveled once in said truck with a trailer attached for a multi-state trip was enough for me.

Although the size of the unit was small, it had everything in it that I was looking for.  I got into the driver’s seat, started the unit up and drove it around the lot.  It was just like driving a truck, but the driver’s seat was way more fitted for a regular sized person to sit in for long stretches of time.

The inside was comfortable, and felt safe.  We had taken many trips on a 92 Harley Davidson Classic motorcycle pulling a trailer behind the motorcycle with all of our gear in it.  This was our preferred way to travel.  Not only is it an extremely cheap way to travel, but you get to experience everything about the places you travel through.  People are much friendlier when they know you’ve been experiencing the elements.

The last trip we had taken out west had turned scary, so our options for where to travel were changed forever.  Yellowstone National Park was being devastated by forest fires, the North entrance was closed, which was the closest entrance to where we were at.  The rest of the park was still open but we had to go to the next entrance.  By the time we got to the entrance it was getting pretty late.  The fire had travel through the park and now the entrance we were at was closed. 

It was getting dark quickly and there was no way we were going to make it back down the mountain in the dark.  We had no choice but to stay at the little roadside campground near the entrance.  The ranger was not happy about us staying because we only had tents and there was a mother grizzly with two cubs that had been frequenting the campground.  We explained our predicament to him and after listing to him explain all about bear safety he finally showed us to a campsite that was as far away from the other campers as possible and closest to the road, in case we had to get out quick he said.

Having traveled a lot, we knew about bear safety, but this was the first time in our 12 years of traveling that we had been warned about a bear.  It was a sleepless night because momma bear decided to visit the campground that night.  She didn’t mess with us, but as I cowered under the blankets and listened to her walking around the campground I swore that this would be the last time I ever stayed in a tent in bear country.  It wasn’t the last time because we still had to make it back home to Michigan, but it was the last trip of tent camping in bear country.

The Class C at the auction had been sold while I was on vacation, so I started doing extensive research on what RV’s were available that fit our needs.  I defiantly knew the only type of unit that was going to make us happy was a toy hauler.  Neither of us liked the idea of putting our motorcycles in a trailer because of all the horror stories we’ve heard, and because we'd all ready done it twice and neither time turned out well.  Maybe I’ll get into some of those stories at another time but for now I’ll continue with how we decided that we wanted to live full time in an RV.

The years ticked by and we continued to research and look at toy hauler RV’s.  I really, really liked the Outlaw Class A by Damon, but by the time we were ready to make a purchase, Damon was out of business, and there just weren’t any used units in the Michigan area for sale.  There were some for sale in southern states, but the timing of a unit being for sale and us having the time to drive down and look at it just never meshed.

Work, kids graduating and moving out, and just life in general got in the way, so we kind of put RV shopping on the back burner until life kicked us in the ass.  I was terminated from my job, all three of our children attached themselves to guys that didn’t like us, so our kids walked out of our lives and basically had no further contact with us.  This is a topic for another blog which someday I may be able to write, but at this point in time my emotions are so wounded and raw that I try to avoid thinking about it.  I do think the subject would help a lot of other parents, because I know I wish there was someone out there that could help us deal with what we’re going through.

OK, got off topic a little, but it is the most influential thing that happen in our life that pointed us in the direction we are heading.  Being unemployed after having spent the majority of my life working full time left me with a lot of time on my hands.  The joy of spending time at home quickly wore off.  Todd was thrilled that I was home all the time concentrating all my efforts on his business and taking care of everything around the house.

Surfing the net one day looking for anything to peak my interest, and cure the boredom I was experiencing, I came across a used RV site that had an Outlaw for sale.  Of course it was located down south, but it led me to start searching, and searching, and searching.  We once again started looking at used RV’s, but none that we checked out gave us the feeling of ‘this is what we want.’

During my internet surfing I learned that Thor is now the builder of the Outlaw Class A toy hauler.  I contacted Thor for more information.  Thor forwarded my information on to a dealer located close to the manufacturing plant.  The salesman contacted me, and we set up a date to tour the factory which is the only way that we were going to be able to get inside one of the new Outlaws, because there still wasn’t anyone around this area that had one on their lot.

During the time between finding Thor and setting a date to tour the factory life again kicked us in the ass.  Many things took a downward spiral while others took off in their own new, unexplained direction.  We spent many a night talking about the past, where we were currently at, and where we were headed.  The answer to what was in store for our future shook us both up to the point that we spent days just kind of walking around in a stupor.

As we saw it, we had two choices for our future.  One, keep working, and maintaining, and improving what we currently have so that eventually it could be left to people that think we’re the worst people to walk the earth, or leave it to people that don’t even know we exist.  Or number two, stop everything, spend what we’ve accumulated and wait to die.

Neither option was appealing to either of us.  Then while surfing the internet looking for anything that could change our future, or at the very least give us another option for our future, I came across lots of web sites about full time RV living.  I spent the next several days learning everything I could, and sharing what I was learning with Todd.

The main thing that everyone that currently is, has in the past, or is planning to live full time in an RV will tell you is; it’s completely different than anything you have ever experienced.  It’s not a vacation, it’s not something that is going to happen overnight, and it’s not for everyone.  We spent weeks doing intense research, and discussing the aspects of our life.

Even after years of looking, we still hadn’t found an RV that was for us, so we decided that ‘yes’ full time RV living is something that we’re going to do if we can find an RV that fits us.  Neither of us was willing to fit ourselves to the RV, it had to fit us.  Each person or couple is unique in every part of their being, so what is right for us may not be right for them, and what’s right for them may not be right for us.  We’ve never been the kind of people that fit into the box, the norm, general society, whatever you want to call it, we’ve always been unique.

We decided to approach buying an RV the same way we’ve approached all of our other major life purchases, ‘we’ll know it’s the right one when it feels right,’ but this is defiantly something we want to do, so let the search begin.